We’ve noticed everyone has taken a liking to talking about the race. So we’re giving you a place to do that, and just that.
Feel free to use this area to discuss anything and everything about the Little 500 — Qualifications, Spring Series, the race itself.
Please, no character attacks. Trash-talking is great, but slandering people isn’t. Let’s keep it clean. Or your post will be deleted.
This decision had to come from the City and the University. IUSF is being “told” what to do just like the students. No way IUSF can keep the track open and staffed into summer semester. IUSF has been forced into a position requiring it to cancel the race without being told to cancel the race.
The race has been cancelled, when was that announced?
It’s been postponed to the summer. Late in may. The likelihood the race is the race as we know it is growing slimmer if it even happens on that date. Need 10 teams on either side minimum to make it to sprint series. No quals
It was a reasonable reply to the previous post that said the race was cancelled, even though it has not been cancelled (yet).
Trying to get in contact with anyone who was influential in this process, does anyone have any emails/phone numbers we can call? I emailed IUSF and was only given us Chuck Carney ccarney@iu.edu ( “IU’s spokesman”)
Just out of curiosity, are you trying to make the case for the race in April or something similar? Talking to Chuck is going to be like a Whitehouse briefing, an lot of tap-dancing with less finesse. The people I have talked to since yesterday (not IUSF staff) with knowledge of the discussions have said that IU is keeping the “footprint” of Little 500 as small as possible because of parties. Even one party (and that is THE primary reason for a May running) will be viewed as a potential super-spreader event.
I’ll be happy provide any details you want, text me your email address at (331) 229 7628
Tom
Right but that doesn’t explain why the race was moved a WHOLE MONTH back! They are putting riders and IUSF in a situation that limits all of Little 5
They want to make absolutely sure. The fact that they put the race on a Wednesday should be indication enough. Do you think IUSF gave any pushback on this? Minimally they should have pushed back on Quals. IUSF should have printed out a list of riders and hometowns to quantify the hassle and expense
for riders to return. IUSF doesn’t care about the riders, why should IU. How many of you will ever donate to IUSF or IUF. It is a well documented fact that SC donates, riders just don’t.
Was there any contingency planning to take into the meeting? Was there any rider input? Heck, when was the last time IUSF requested any relevant rider input. If IUSF wants your opinion, they will give it to you, Look back 16 posts you will see this:
“we got the email 17 minutes before the rest of the field. didn’t know the decision was today, knew nothing at all actually.”
If any of this, or the countless other examples of IUSF putting the riders last, surprises you, you have not been paying attention.
I propose to all riders griping about the changing dates… please consider going even if it won’t be convenient. If not enough times show interest the race will be cancelled in a second. If you want to be a part (literally) of a storied tradition and its future. Please do what you can to get enough teams to race.
I for one just don’t think it’s a big deal for most riders to come back to Bloomington. (caveat being out-of-state riders). If you think about it many Little 5ers routinely drive multiple hours to road races/crits throughout the midwest during the summers.
That is a pretty broad statement. (I agree they should try). “Most” and “many” are really “some”. Your “caveat” is a HUGE “caveat”. My house’s team has two riders from Indy, one from California and one from Montana. Most teams are not made up of 4 USA Cycling racers. Most races are not as unique as Little 500; cinder track, exchanges, that require a unique venue in which to train. The is NO substitute for training on the track. Virtually no races are on a Wednesday; they are on the weekends. In short, Little 500 riders are composed less bike racers and more potential bike racers. IUSF knows how many riders will have to travel long distances. Avoiding parties has placed an unreasonable and unwarranted burden on the very people who embody the essence of the Little 500 tradition. These problems have existed for 2 decades but have been laid bare by the pandemic.
To be clear, this is about the parties! Everything else is a distant second. IUSF/IUF and IU should have been addressing the party problem going all the way back to the Varsity Villa riots in 1991. Back then IUSF advertised Little 500 in cities as far as Los Angeles. They failed to anticipate the consequences from having Mtv promote the Little 500 as the ultimate party weekend. It was critical for IUSF not to have Little 500 weekend be defined by parties and not the race. That didn’t work out very well did it? More recently, ever increasing ticket prices exacerbated the problem. While the Greeks didn’t eliminate the parties, they at least tried to support the race. Both sororities and fraternities imposed fines on members for not attending the race. This practice ultimately evolved to them purchasing tickets for all the members and chartering busses to take them to and from Armstrong stadium. Unfortunately, it didn’t keep the members from showing up drunk.
There is a cost for all this neglect. And the bill, marked “OVER DUE” is expected to be paid by the riders.
These are the dedicated students who challenge the roads of Southern Indiana, who dutifully come to practice, who risk injury, who endure the adverse weather. When they ask relevant question to IUSF, the reply is “There’s nothing I can do”. (Thanks Andrea) THEY are the ones IU punishes and IUSF willfully sacrifices on the altar of “Leadership for a Lifetime”.(Seriously, Little 500 on a Wednesday?)
Little 500 is the single most inspiring and transformative event at Indiana University. Unfortunately, you can’t live off a Tradition forever. It must be nurtured, respected and tuned to the changing conditions. When Bill Armstrong died in 1977, Little 500 lost a seat at the table. IUSF became increasingly tone deaf and less inspirational. In the past 5 years “tone deaf” has turned into “stone deaf”. As one Little 500 champion said: “IUSF has sucked all the enthusiasm out of the race.” Thursday’s IDS article on the postponement on the race netted SIX sentences. In their defense, last time they went to IUSF/IUF for input, regarding the controversy before the 2019 race, they were met with a resounding chorus of “No Comment!”
In many ways, the Little 500 is on a ventilator. In the past, it has been the riders, alumni riders and coaches, that resurrected the race from certain death. In the past 5 years, the IUSF staff, lacking any guidance from IUF, has done an impressive job of silencing these people, who are the very essence of the Little 500. And the ones they could not silence, they marginalized or removed. This time they have presented a monumental obstacle to he race community. And with the reduced number of teams, Little 500 may have become a patient that even the dedicated riders can’t save. However, if they cannot, it will not be because they failed Little 500. It will be because IUSF failed them AND the Little 500.
Tom
1. Go off king
2. As a current regular, non-RC rider, what can I do to improve the situation and help turn the L5 back into the tradition it once was? Your long post got me a bit fired up, but what can I do to help fix this?
It is up to you and the rest of the rider community to put the “Student” back into the Student Foundation. This situation demonstrates that at every level, students have no voice at IUSF. And this is nothing new. It started back in 1997 when Army died. With a couple of exceptions, each change in IUSF Director/Race Director positions marginalized the participants input a bit more. And now the staff makes the decisions, they make the rules. In fact, they just make up rules depending on what mood they are in or who is asking the unthinkable “Why” question. And if you think Riders Council has a voice, read the posts from last week. You are just 17 minutes less relevant than RC. The impact this has on the tradition of Little 500 is staggering. The most successful organizations, especially student organizations, are successful because the members have a sense of ownership in the organization. For example…
In 2006, IUSF decided to change the gear ratio for the women. It was learned that someone had decided that women’s thighs were getting too big. I’m not kidding. IUSF claimed to have done extensive testing they claimed would benefit the women’s race. They claimed 3 of the most respected female riders (from Theta, Kappa & Teter) who had taken part. It was all a lie. The 3 women said they never did any testing. There was a firestorm over this. The female riders pushed back and it was reversed. The bikes had been ordered with the different gear. The bike shop had to change them all back. Also, the “testing” was completely debunked by a Little 500 2-time champion and Hall of Fame member who has her PhD in physiology from UC Boulder. So none of this is new.
In 2019 Tara and Andrea would institutionalize silencing participants in a Little 500 rule. That is the coaching rule. Several RC members told me that to pass was basically what Andrea demanded. Andrea
bundled several rule changes into one up or down vote. Te Little 500 rule change proceedures were ont followed. Here is a passage from that rule, it was the 1st bullet point in 2019 and 2020.
It is the 3rd for 2021.
“IUSF is a student organization and the Little 500 is a student event, and, as such, the coach should restrict his/her contribution to coaching and should refrain from activities involved in IUSF’s management.”
In 2019 a women’s coach asked to discuss rider safety. The IUSF staff summarily dismissed him saying: “Your interference will not be tolerated”. He pulled his team from the Little 500 the week of the race, due to 2 injured riders.
Just look at the current Rider Manual. Steering Committee is mentioned 5 times. Staff and management 13 times. And all in the context of making final decisions. No student ownership, clear and simple.
I’m not sure who noticed, but Andrea didn’t even sign the email that went out about the race postponement. She tried to make it look like she was also a victim. She wants ALL of the authority and none of the responsibility. She has engineered her position to that of ultimate authority and avoided ANY responsibility or accountability like the plague. She should have pushed back on a Wednesday race. But that would have impacted her “career” path at IUF. If I were the Director I would have pushed back for the rider’s sake and for the sake of the Little 500 tradition. And may have said that: “If you want me in on the crash landing, you damned sure better let me in on the take off.” Instead she sent out an email with coward written all over it. Note, this was mentioned to me by several IU administrators.
I know these comments are long, but this is not a twitter solvable problem. There is no history, context or in many cases, little if any honesty provided to you and your fellow riders. This is your race, and you need this stuff to make informed decisions. You have to decide what your commitment is to the Tradition of Little 500. And that is infinitely more critical than your individual teams. Hint: going for the minimum 10 & 10 is not an option. It is a handful of coffin nails.
(What was the deal with #1)
Tom
Jetblach and Theta Phi Alpha are definitely in !
Need 10 and 10.
Who’s in?
Where did IUSF state the there needs to be 10 teams for each race to be run.
By all means, for Little 500 as for life; “Go For The Minimum”
10 IS the new 33
Varsity Villas riot was in 1988
Google little 500 riots, It is the 1st result.
I don’t need to “Google” what I lived through & saw with my own eyes! 88 was the year!
MTV sold the story all too well. Out-of-town revelers began flocking to Bloomington looking for a chance to let loose. First in 1988 and then again in 1991 in what came to be known as the “Varsity Villas Riots,” police made hundreds of arrests in response to vandalism, violence, and drinking violations.
“magbloom.com/2018/04/blooms-greatest-hits-little-500-then-now/”
1991 – Rioters at Varsity Villas overturn cars and light them on fire, leading to 400 arrests.
http://www.bloomingpedia.org/wiki/The_Little_500
Saw that some cuties went out racing today
evie kicked ass, those are the details
Who is the new race director?
Archie Miller
People out here tryna cancel Jazz Briggs for building community. I’m canceling you!
Imagine thinking that IU postponed the race because it was worried about the safety of Little 5 riders
You would need a very vivid imagination. Unless they have data illustrating that Wednesday is the safest day of the week to race a bike.
Man 🥸 It Sure Do Feel Good 😌💞 To Get Back 🔙 Out There On The Ring 🔁 Of Fire 🔥 A.K.A. That Bill 🧑🏻🦲 Armstrong 💪 Stadium 🏟!! Am I Right ☑️ Guys? Hitting Those Cinders 🧱 And Ripping 🪦 Those Exchanges 💱 Gets Me Pumped 😤 For An Exciting Spring 🌷.
That Is, Of Course, If Andrea 🧎🏻♀️📉 Doesn’t Ruin It 🚳😂👮🏻♀️✋
Until Next ⏭ Time ⏰ – Peace 🖖
She already did.
My mom is a patent and trademark attorney and she told me not sign the apparel contract under any circumstances.
1, Little 500 is a service mark not a trademark (not a huge deal, but sloppy she said)
2. It limits the signer’s rights to less than what the law provides.
3. IUSF cannot not bring legal action, only the service mark owner, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, can.
4. It is not a contract, it is a threat. She couldn’t believe that any organization would threaten legal action against volunteer student participants.
Worst teams this year (in no particular order):
1. Cutters
2. XA
3. PGN
4. Forest Cycling
5. Indiana Men’s Basketball
1. Robert Strobel BKB
2. Brown BKB
3. Logan Tisdale Gray Goat or Rob K Jetblach
5. Andrew Phi Kappa Psi
See ITTs for updates**
So, Hank Duncan is the new Race Director? If he is, he’s still under Andrea and will probably have hands tied but we can hope that RC and the Riders have an increased influence.
Hank is a great guy, But you are correct, he will NOT be able to make ANY relevant decisions. He was hired by the Supreme Leader so she doesn’t view him as a potential threat to her hegemony. It was probably because he never used the word “Why” in the interview.
Best of luck, Hank, you are going to need it.
May God have mercy on your Soul.
This aged poorly. He’s showed already he has the commitment and passion to make it happen in the best way it can be done
“He’s showed already he has the commitment and passion to make it happen in the best way it can be done”
This will fit very nicely on Little 500’s Headstone. This is not the best way it can be done, it is the best way he can do it, Commitment and passion are irrelevant if if there is no competence. Let’s not lower the expectations any lower than they are now.
Unfortunately
That post is aging like a fine wine, getting more valuable by the minute.
RC influence is a mere 17 minutes better than the riders. Maybe Hank gets 34 minutes? Andrea has just hired a scapegoat who has some credibility that she can suck dry. It has been 3 weeks since the race was postponed. We know nothing more than on the 4th (other than Hank, if it is him). Andrea had 2 extremely qualified candidates. No surprise that neither got a 2nd interview. Thanks IUF for your unwavering guidance. Hey, RC why aren’t you doing something, anything. I thought those jackets gave you superpowers.
Who were the other two candidates? I understand if you don’t want to say for privacy reasons. This might be a hot take, but with Greek participation dropping fast I think a Greek RD who has a strong reputation amongst Independent teams is exactly what the race needs. Who even is the last Greek RD?
Andrea and Beth will tank the race, and I don’t think Hank is convicted enough to challenge the person who hired him.
It is best they not be mentioned here. Both are race winners, one female one male. (text your email to (331) 229-7628 if you want the names). If I had been the position to make the hire, i.e. no Andrea, I would have hired both even if I had to pay them out of my own pocket. As anyone who has been paying attention knows, the problems that face the IUSF and the race are monumental and did not recently materialize out of thin air. They were on full display as far back as October 9, 2018 when Andrea declared that the 1st Rookie Tuesday Night Race Series be mandatory for all rookies. In the words of one of the veteran EMT’s on that Tuesday, “This is the worst night I’ve ever seen.” Several of the other EMT’s who were not treating riders at that time agreed. There were 19 crashes and 5 Ambulances transporting riders to the hospital. Not once was an attempt made by IUSF to stop the carnage. I lost two very promising AXiD riders that night, one to injuries and one who declared that IUSF was barbaric. RC failed the Little 500 by not taking a stand against the mandatory decision. (the subsequent events were cancelled due to weather or track conditions.) 19 crashes, 5 ambulances and 0 accountability.
The Greeks are their own worst enemies. The bike team didn’t break the rules but they are punished. Riders defected to independent teams because they wanted to ride. The the Greek community, Little 500 is not a race, it’s a party. The last 3 Greek race directors were no champions of the riders either. They tried to make the Women’s gear easier because women’s thighs were getting too fat (I’m serious) and tried eliminating alumni coaches from the pit on race day. Each time using the same underhanded tactics like lying and threats that IUSF uses now. Why did those efforts fail? It is because the RIDERS stood up and refused to take any of it. They were fierce and committed; a force to be reckoned with. They stood up for themselves and the future Little 500. They were fighting for YOU when you were all in grade school. Before you ever heard of the Little 500.
I’m afraid the tipping point is passed. Nothing has changed and nothing of any substance will change in the short time left. IUSF is just running the clock out. To them the Little 500, “is such a small drop in the bucket”. Three weeks ago we were informed of the race postponement. Two emails since, one perfunctory about track times and one with a contract that threatens legal action over logos & apparel. Nothing that will give you critical information about track availability, track maintenance or any other things to help you better prepare for a race you will be proud to participate in. And to think or hope that Hank is going to rescue all of you is completely unfair to Hank. Your desperation does not get to write a check that Hank has to cash. And anyway, has there even been an official announcement that he actually IS the Race Director?
Tom
Is this race director list accurate?
1996-1998 Mike Foote (Dodds)-
1999-2001 Jon Purvis (Dodds)-
2002-2005 Rob Rhamy (Phi Delt) Women’s Gear Change rule
2006 Lucas Calhoun (Forest)- Courtney Bishop Ban
2007-2008 Matt Ewing (Phi Delt)- Coaching ban petition likely stemming from previous year’s ban of Bishop
2009-2011 Pam Loebig (DG)
2012-2016 Jordan Bailey (BKB)
2017-2020 Andrea Balzano
2021- Hank? last name? team?
1992-1995 Bob Lindsay
2002-2003 Alex Ihnen (Purvis becomes Director)
Megan Rhamy was the Women’s RD when Rob Rhamy was the Men’s RD
Hank Duncan (still no announcement That I have seen)
Forest
It’s unknown how much power Hank will have as the Race Director, but his enthusiasm for the race will be infectious and renew the spirit of Little 500. Even if he can’t make crazy amounts of admin changes, he offers knowledge, influence, leadership, and passion that Andrea severely lacks. Maybe his ideas don’t ever get approved by IUSF, but he can absolutely shift the attitude and culture by empowering students to make the race theirs again. Andrea has gotten so much wrong during her horrid 4 year tenure as Race Director, but perhaps her best decision she ever made was hiring Hank.
OK, let’s be realistic here. Andrea did not have some epiphany and hire a transformational Race Director, that’s a fantasy. The position is Temporary Race Director. It is effectively a 12-week hourly job; the time from now until race day, even though it goes through June. And Hank is everything you say he is but he is not going to challenge her in any way. This is not some dream job that will launch a career, it is a job Andrea was allow to open up and oversee the hiring process. The latter is reason enough for everyone to dial back their hope.
Hank’s primary benefit to the riders and Little 500 is that he is not Andrea, who is universally despised, but more importantly, universally feared. He will push through the frustration; after all it is temporary. The change that riders desperately crave and the Little 500 requires for its very existence will not be achieved by temporary race directors, steering committees, riders’ councils, coaches, or riders, it will be achieved when the Andrea Balzano and Beth Miller are terminated.
Q. Explain why you want to create a Collaborative Team. *
Best Answer: (actually the only answer)
We actually don’t, you forced us into this situation when you moved the race. And if you don’t let us, you will loose 2 teams instead of 1.
https://www.idsnews.com/article/2021/03/letter-little-500-lost-tradition
Just in case anyone wants to know what tradition feels like”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmUBwPerIBI&t=14s
I’m really cryin in the club rn did you guys watch that 🥺
I’ve never met Hank Duncan but I like him already!
With Spring Series starting this week, who’s looking good? Who is taking the Poll with Team Pursuit being Quals? Let the games begin.
How many teams are going to be in the race?
The team petitions were due last Wednesday. Have they been ruled on by Hank? Let’s have some real numbers.
If you have only 2 riders for race day and cannot combine with another team, are you out of the race because you need 3 to d ITT? You can do traditional traditional quals with only 2.
JB winning points
BKB 2nd – fastest stand still ITT
Cutters with interesting tactic
Hand timers are bad
Sorry to those who dropped chains or broke them
Update: Logan tisdale may get to ride again, unofficial 2:21 time
Theta is the 2nd team in history to put 5 riders in the top 10 of ITT. They finished:
3, 7, 8, 9, 10
The other team was Theta in 2000: They finished:
1, 3, 6, 7, 10
Hand timers were awful tonight. Never matched up with the score board. It is what it is
Who is Josh herbst
Wouldn’t you like to know weather boy.
Heat 36 tonight
Josh Herbst (JETBLACH): 02:23.38
I thought jb didn’t have a 4th after Goode left?? What year is Josh??
Year after year we see examples of how IUSF views the riders. Under the current regime, things have become particularly more acute. The attitude is that the riders need the race much more the race needs the riders. I had an SC member tell me this many years ago at Nick’s. I was seated a table of then current SC members. Even they were a bit surprised that she said this. I looked at her and asked one simple question. “At the end of the day and everyone has left the stadium, whose hand is the money in?” She tried to dodge the question, another SC member commented, “I think I’m with Tom on this one.” She finally said that the money was in IUSF’s hand. Which was proof that IUSF need the riders much more that they need IUSF. Just because there are no ticket sales this year, doesn’t make the riders less relevant.
I was once given the opportunity to brief a group of series event timers. I had constructed a timing system specifically for ITT’s that semi-automated the process. The timers were excited and motivated. The mechanics of their task were pretty simple, a stopwatch is not that complicated. That part of the talk went pretty quickly, the next part, the important part, took a bit longer. I told them the numbers they were recording were not simply numbers. They represented, the effort, the desire, the passion, the very essence of every rider that competes. Each number on the display either validated their hard work or served as an indication of a potentially serious but correctable problem. The difference between a 2:48.50 and a 2:48.49 which may be infinitesimal in the eyes of a timer or IUSF, can be the difference in making the team or even making the race. For last night’s event it is manifested in the form of this tweet.
“Due to a few timing discrepancies, we will not post official times tonight. We are looking through footage of the race to make sure everything is in order and will post the official rankings tomorrow!”
(Note: if IUSF is going to depend on the video stream to check times, anyone who saw the stream will know what a waste of time that will be. The low resolution iPad camera could not show the entire track without panning their iPad.)
And there was this text which was a bit more to the point: “IUSF fucked the times. As per usual.”
The usual and always ready response from IUSF is, predictably, “There’s nothing we can do.” As they walk away. What the riders hear is: “We don’t care enough to even admit that we screwed up, deal with it.”
If IUSF wants to create memories that will draw participants back in 5, 10 or 15 years, they had better start taking things like timing a lot more seriously. The first step is to impress the timers with the critical nature of their task, by doing so, not make them the convenient scapegoats for lack of proper instruction.
p.s. Upgrade your iPad to a mac or PC with a wide-angle HD webcam so you can show the entire track during the live-stream. Certainly there is one available somewhere, try the Media School.
While at the end of the day I was happy to see the riders get a chance to compete, it sure was frustrating following along yesterday. The live stream coverage and the constant delays with reporting the results were disappointing to put it mildly. Compound that with timing issues and a statement that volunteers will review the tape, has left me scratching my head wondering why there was seemingly such a lack of preparation leading up to this event.
I hope the riders had a better experience than those of us viewing at home.
I especially liked that the press box audio was left on after Zak left and you could hear SC commenting on how the timers forgot to reset the watches between heats.
This is nothing new. Volunteer timing has always been a problem. Anyone can time one heat almost to perfection. But unless they are used to timing long events, it’s very easy for volunteers with no stake in the game to get distracted and make mistakes 5-10% of the time. And if they get hungry it’s probably more like 20%!
Another reason Little 500 needs more former swimmers. Their parents would show up and volunteer for all sorts of 6 hour shifts and they would throw together great hospitality carts.
Very true! I was thinking the same thing.
Coaches are not even allowed in the stadium much less parents.
The volunteers are provided little if any relevant instruction. If they were properly trained and told how important their job is and actually appreciated, none of this would happen. It was this way in the past….actually way way in the past (before you Chris 🙂 .
Oh yes, back when the stopwatches had wind-up hands on them! (But well after the sun dial era)
Who got for men’s Team Pursuit? BKB vs JB! Leaning towards JB bc Krahulik gives the biggest draft.
Hes a straight up fatass
Faster drafters flow from fastest asses.
Coming from a team of sticks, I’d literally kill to ride behind that absolute dump truck of a badonkadonk…
Dude! No way. BKB all the way. BKB is straight up faster and Courtney B’s gonna end up making JB sandbag it.
Nah Courtney needs pole again, been 15 years too long for him. Delta program never lined up in green. Think JB committed to a clean spring series sweep
BKB got hosed on that points technicality… How tf do Clements and Tisdale tie after the results. Politics much?? Bulls will reign supreme in TP.
This is new territory for BKB, not having Bailey’s thumb on the scale for them.
True, they definitely haven’t been missing him in the previous years he’s been gone since 2016!
BKB aside, he was one of the people who stuck us with Andrea.
BKB would be in much worse shape had they not recruited an illegal cat 2 to race for them. Smells like they are still getting special treatment
Goodeness! Ilegal cat 2! What are you suggesting?
Whys everyone so hung up on this? Not like he’s dominating the field.
Gavin Goode is ineligible next year. Not an illegal cat 2, besides he made the designation on cross which, albeit impressive, doesn’t carry the weight that maybe a cat 2 on the road does. It’s a bogus rule anyways, anyone who protests eligibility is soft and afraid of hard work
I think the way the rule is written would deem him inelgible for this year’s race, “Any rider who has held, presently holds, or will hold a USA Cycling Category I or II license prior to race day shall be deemed ineligible for the Little 500” (Section IV B). The amateur status exception as it is written wouldn’t apply in this case either since both requirements need to be met: no prior advanced cycling experience and 2 years of previous little 500 participation (Section IV G). My understanding is that he holds a cat II license and he does not have two previous years of little 500 experience.
I believe the rule is a bad one and it’s made even worse when it’s arbitrarily enforced. If my memory serves correctly the rule was originally implemented during the DChi legacy to promote parity in the field. It was later on when Hans upgraded to cat II that they retroactively added the addendum to allow riders that met the amateur status and previous experience criteria to have an additional year of elgibility (Hans was on RC at the time). In my mind it was always a misguided rule. If the intent was to keep the race competitive, surely removing competitors from the top is a worse (albeit easier) outcome than putting resources towards making the lesser teams better.
Your post is excellent and hits the relevant points. One note, Hans was President of RC.
The rule has typically been enforced in this way. (However, most people know there is a certain elasticity with rules depending on the rider’s popularity with IUSF. So there have been exceptions.) If you hold a Cat II license prior to enrolling at IU you do you cannot ride. If you hold a Cat IV or Cat III you can ride. If you upgrade from Cat III to Cat II you are allowed to ride in only one Little 5 race as a Cat II and you are done. Again, riders have usually saved this option for their senior year.
The Genesis of the Cat rule.
The discussion of a CAT II rule started after the 1993 race, won by DChi. Their finisher Todd Handcock (RC president), was asked if this was the most important race he rode in. His answer, “No”, scared IUSF. They believed that it absolutely had to be the most important race to bond the riders to IUSF and hence IU to make them potential donors.
That is what started the movement to ban Cat II’s. It was wildly unpopular with the rider community. Participants vehemently pronounced that: “You are not going to increase participation by eliminating participants.” They felt that IUSF was taking the easy route by cutting off the top instead the more productive route of helping out new teams. The other consequence was that the teams that did not make the 33 team cut at Quals were now in the race which negatively impacted safety. IUSF proclaimed that RC would address this issue, however, results ranged from non-existent to marginal at best.
It should be noted that earlier that same year, Handcock had convinced IUSF that Pete Noverr who had won the race in 1991 (he took a year off to train for a slot on the Olympic Team) was a Cat 1. In a meeting with Todd, Pete and Race Director Bob Lindsay. Lindsay informed Pete that his RC application was rejected because he was not eligible for the race. Completely surprised, Pete asked why. Bob said it was because he was a Cat 1. Pete replied that he had never held a Cat 1 license. Lindsey looked a Handcock, who said, I thought he did. Lindsay looked at Pete and said, Well Pete you are out anyway. Pete became the only rider eliminated by the Cat 1 rule even though he was never a Cat 1. It was not the first nor would it be the last time an RC member would use their status with RC, to “cripple” a team they could not beat on race day.
Tom
Actually Logan was technically slower than clements, but only by a single millisecond thus he was rounded down but ranked lower
1. JB
2. Goats
3. BKB
4. Cutters
5. Phi Psi
6-8. XA, Bears, Phi Delt in any order
9-10. Ep and FIJI
That’s pretty much the field this year, a lot of firepower coming out of 10 teams though.
JB over BKB and Goats?? Are you looking at these teams’ depth at all?
1. BKB
2. JB
3. Goats
4-10: Looks about right to me.
Once again all these BKB comments age like fine wine…. cool your black key boners folks and let the riders let their legs talk!
Word on the street is Theta & BKB got the ‘rona… Wonder how that will be accounted for with qualification, pit position, and spring series…
Rumor has it Esma Taylor is the one that exposed the teams. Hopefully she’s not the reason the entire race blows up….
sup braden
Could the IUSF volunteers care a single ounce? Or is this just like a cute hangout sesh for them? The livestream is absolute garbage. After pushing out spectators, this is the only way for family and friends to see the hard work pay off and IUSF seems more concerned about Jimmy John’s than anything else. In the reflection of the press box, we can see you look at your phone and walk away from the camera as passes are being made off screen. Do better.
Well Hank,
Perhaps by now you have discovered that writing an inspiring email, falls flat when you fail to deliver the goods, not once but twice. How IUSF cannot have a decent video feed that at least shows the entire track is inexcusable. Didn’t you see the suggestions from the posts during the ITT feed. IUSF is doing countless Zoom meetings, yet you don’t have a camera and laptop that can be in the press box and provide a media experience that the riders and spectators deserve? Zak is reasonably good, but fails to do his homework, 10 members of Riders Council are Greeks but there is a discussion (with a live mic) about how to pronounce the Greek Letter Xi which would be nice considering the current women’s pole sitter is Alpha Xi Delta. (Although, I guess, not “Officially”) And would it have been that hard to update the standings on Twitter before you shut down for the night? When can we expect you to “come up to speed” on that?
In your email you said that you had 2 months to come up to speed. In this year, where riders and spectators have an insatiable hunger for the best experience possible, what they get is on-the-job-training. While I agree that you are a good guy, the chorus of complaints have led many to the conclusion that you are everything you can expect from a Balzano hire; and less.
And RC, you should be all over IUSF’s case about this BIG TIME. It is time for you to step up for your fellow riders. Any RC complaints about the series problems, should be said into a mirror.
My God, and to think we could have had Abby Rogers or Phil Stephens, who according to the word on the street, never got even 2nd interviews, both are Little 500 champions and who have the skills, experience and aptitude that wouldn’t have required 2 months to “come up to speed”.
And everybody else.
Please stop ripping on the volunteers, we are all volunteers. This is not their failure; it is clearly a complete absence of leadership at the top. The irony, is staggering.
You’re a dick
Well, there you have it everyone, problem solved!
Thanks!
Not saying that a portion of these arguments aren’t valid, but this is certainly an overreaction
We love Hank. We hate the kid doing the mindless commentary over the spring series events we’ve trained our asses off for
Current rider community frustration began when Fall ITT’s were cancelled less than 2 hours before their scheduled start time, in October of 2019. And it has been getting worse ever since. IUSF just continues to ignore or even admit there are any problems. And pointing them out gets you removed from L5 for 3 years. For example, requesting the current status of Quals is a reasonable request. Even if IUSF is reevaluating the recorded TP times like they did after ITT’s, they should be posted, if for nothing else, out of respect for the riders. This is not a request to change water to wine. Instead we get the most recent post on Twitter and FB, which is a video about the Indy 500 milk campaign. Can we stick to our event? Is there anyone who really believes there will be any improvement in timing and video quality when the series continue Sunday, or for M&O next week. If there is, GREAT, but let’s not view this some incredible feat by IUSF. They should fix problems instead of lowering expectations. Which is what they did when “results” designation after ITT’s was changed to “preliminary results”. “Leadership for a Lifetime is IUSF’s motto, one that continues to be more sarcastic as frustration increases. When these things get pointed out to IUSF and they do nothing then the only recourse is to point them out more forcibly, and not just expect the participants to lower their expectations, like IUSF likes to do, time and again.
It’s bogus that Cutters, JetBlach, Bears, Ep, Fiji, and XA all got to do TP on a fast track Friday and teams are going to have to do it on a completely different surface today (if that even happens). Seems like teams should be re-qualifying if we’re running the make-up heats on a day this crappy…or wait to run it on a good day to keep SOME fairness involved.
To be fair jetblach beat everyone’s times today. Only team that leaves a question mark is BKB
Grey goat may have beat JBs finale time though I am not certain. Still, seems fair to me
Sorry about that. Great goat sucked ass today and got smoked. Sorry boys 😦
Bad day not to be on JB
sup braden
Still not me lol
I would make a witty comment but JB just made the boldest pole pit position of all time. This will surely be an interesting race
Thoughts on men and women’s teams following TP?
Assuming that Theta and BKB will be starting from the back, the front row(s) for each race are going to haul ass off the starting line. Theta is better considering their record setting 6 riders in the top 10 in ITT’s.
The real challenge will be for the teams in both races to get TPA or JB to actually pull a lap, even if it is just one.
Exactly. Attack on lap 1 will def work against BKB
What’s “Pull a lap”???
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Of course you have no idea what that is.
Why pull when someone else slower than you will
Tom,
I know Art Keith was also banned from the 1993 race as it was always known around our team as the Art Keith Rule. He was pulled less than a month before the race for his mountain biking status and I think it was after he already did quals. I didn’t realize Pete and Art both got pulled from the 1993 race.
Are you sure it’s not 1994 for Art? I vividly remember Bob Lindsay being RD when Pete was left out in 1993. And I also vividly remember that Ken Sloo was RD when Art got kicked out in 1994.
For Art, IUSF was taken to court by the Cutters with the hearing the morning of the Women’s race (it was also the day of the Oklahoma City bombing). I was at that hearing. During a break, Race Director, Ken Sloo asked me: “Tom, I know you wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire (which was true), but who do you want to win today. I told him that there would be no winners in court that day, just one looser. And that looser was the Little 500. When the Sloo testified, it was quite possibly the most amazing work of extemporaneous fiction I had ever witnessed. I was ready to stand up and object to the lies coming from his mouth.
Tom
Hi Tom,
I’m sure you’re right since you were there. Art may have decided not to race in 1993 and came back to race in 94. Maybe his case had to do specifically with his mountain biker status since Mountain biking had a different classification system then Cat 1, 2, etc.
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Team and rider rankings ?
Honestly it’s a bit of a toss up this year with Spongebob getting his boating license. He hasn’t been training nearly as much as he did the last 2 years. Larry the Lobster has been putting mega work in at the gym at Blue Lagoon Beach but it’s hard to say if that will transfer over at this point. A bit of a dark horse imo. Maybe a bit controversial I think Sandy Cheeks has been putting in the most work this year and she’s also been sleeping in a big O2 dome that will probably benefit her on race day. Also she’s from Texas like Lance Armstrong so she’s got that going for her.
Top 10 riders
10. Gary
9. Mr. Krabs
8. Karen Plankton
7. Spongebob
6. Hash Slinging Slasher
5. Mermaid Man & Barnacle Boy
4. “My Leg” guy
3. Larry the Lobster
2. Doodle Bob
1. Sandy Cheeks
Seems like after MNO Gray Goat holds the trump card in Tisdale if it comes to the sprint. Though I still believe that Strobel can challenge Tisdale heads up. However, it seems like teams like BKB and JB should try to leverage their depth to keep the race from ending in a pack finish. It will be interesting to see how teams outside of the Top 3 like Cutters, Phi Psi, Chi Alpha, and Bears plan their race. Will they try to catch the field off guard and attempt to lap the field early like JB and Nick’s did in 2019, or will they just try to hold on and get a good finish in a pack sprint?