Discussion Room

We’ve noticed everyone has taken a liking to talking about the race. So we’re giving you a place to do that, and just that.

Feel free to use this area to discuss anything and everything about the Little 500 — Qualifications, Spring Series, the race itself.

Please, no character attacks. Trash-talking is great, but slandering people isn’t. Let’s keep it clean. Or your post will be deleted.

 

 

3,629 thoughts on “Discussion Room”

    • Who you taking in a 4 man crit (Post 2013)?

      Cutters: Guyon, Thiery, Schwedland, Depasse
      Delts: Tormoelhen, Smith, Momper, Vicino
      SAE: Joe, Andy, Marks, Sasseman
      Sig Ep: Torrance, Hicks, Settle, Harris
      Phi Delt: Romo, Lee, Beaumont, Brunk
      Beta: Craig, Knight, Laughlin, Mcnamara
      BKB: Martinez, Brauchla, Hammon, Hartman
      3PH: Cohen, Thompson, Thomspon, Wilson
      Gray Goat: Klingle, Welch, Tisdale, Stratton
      Bears/Wright: Langley, Zehr, Figg, Goodrum
      Sig Chi (lol): Holtkamp, Ryan, Fiore, uhhhh…. Serf?
      Island of Misfits: Abel, Kalbfell, Crawford, Portolese

      Everyone other team: So sorry, you would stand no chance

      Hopefully this is argued till sunrise at Nicks…

      Reply

  2. Oh wow, I can’t wait to check the results of my favorite spring series event!

    Reply

    • Teams with multiple riders advancing

      Black Key Bulls 5
      Gray Goat 5
      JETBLACH 4
      CUTTERS 4
      Phi Psi 3
      Phi Gamma Delta 3
      Forest 2
      Phi Delta Theta 2
      Delta Upsilon 2
      CSF Cycling 2
      NEH Cycling 2
      Gafombi 2
      Delta Chi 2
      Sigma Phi Epsilon 2
      Bears 2

      Reply

    • Men:
      1. Cutters
      2. BKB
      3. Jetblach
      4. Gray Goat
      5. Bears
      6. Gafombi
      7. SigEp
      8. Nick’s
      9. Phi Psi
      10. Phi Delt

      Reply

  5. Scoreboard for women
    Women’s teams with multiple riders placing in preliminary miss-n-out heats.

    SKI 5
    DG 4
    Teter 4
    Theta 4
    Melanzana 4
    AXO 3
    AXD 2
    Nursing 2
    Phi Mu 2
    Godspeed 2
    CSF 2

    Any predictions for Team Pursuit?

    Reply

  6. 1. NEH might have the best fitness in the race but don’t know how to win L5
    2. Phi Delt is this years dark horse
    3. If GG raced their younger guys they would this year
    4. Cutters will try to blow up the race this year…
    5. Bkb has absolutely no support for their top 2
    6. Jetblach might have a stronger rider in Gordon than they do Oehler
    7. No standout star this year just a bunch of guys who are all pretty good
    8. It’s just one day in April….

    Reply

    • Guessing this was written by NEH since they believe a team in 5th in white jersey points after ITTs is the most fit in the field. LOL.

      Reply

    • What do you mean if GG raced their younger guys? They only have two Seniors and the rest of the team is sophomores and freshman

      Reply

  7. Team Pursuit

    Just noticed on the IUSF website under the Team Pursuit description that all four riders are included in the result, and not the first three as in previous years. That is a big change!

    Reply

    • The following is taken directly from the IUSF websites description of Team Pursuit.

      “Two teams of four riders will each race simultaneously against one another. The bikes will be placed at opposite corners of the track, lying flat on the cinders. The race begins with both teams standing 20 feet from their bikes. At the sound of the horn, the teams sprint to their bikes and begin the 15-lap (men) or 12-lap (women) race. The two teams chase one another while ultimately competing against the clock. Each team continues to ride until the fourth rider of each team crosses his/her respective start/finish line. The two teams with the fastest times will compete in a final Team Pursuit championship heat at the end of the night.”

      Date: April 6

      Time: 1:00 pm

      Location: Bill Armstrong Stadium

      Reply

    • Has to be a misprint in the description. Taken directly from page 28 of the 2019 Little 500 Manual

      “… Each team continues to ride until the third rider of the team crosses
      his/her respective start/finish line. All teams are allowed to drop one rider at any time (assuming
      the team started with four riders)…”

      Reply

  8. How many times will Forest attempt to lap the field and fail this year? I say 3 times before they realize they no good son .

    Reply

  10. Team Pursuit this weekend. Who ya got?

    1. Cutters
    2. Gray Goat
    3. BKB
    4. Phi Psi
    5. NEH

    1. SKI
    2. DG
    3. Teter
    4. Theta
    5. Independent Council

    Reply

  11. 1. Cutters – 4 in top 25, 2 in top 10. Seem to emphasize TP runs at the track.
    2. BKB – 3 in top 25, 2 in top 5. Know how to succeed in this event, X and Strobel can pull to the finals while the other 2 just hang on.
    3. GG – 4 in top 30, 2 in top 10. GG are solidly deep, haven’t seen much success in TP before.
    4. Forest – 2 in top 16. Like BKB, 2 front riders can pull to decent finish.
    5. Phi Delt – 2 in top 18. See forest, BKB.
    5. NEH – 2 in top 20. See forest, BKB, Phi Delt.

    Reply

    • Yeah Forest has two top 16, but their last two guys are 91 and 98 ITTers. Phi Psi has three top-40 guys, NEH has four top-40, and Phi Delt four top-40. Forest has the depth for maybe 11th or 12th place in TP. No way they beat any of the other teams you mentioned let alone Sig Ep, Bears, Beta, or Jetblach.

      Reply

  12. TP is 15 laps, not 4. Totally different ball game. Teams that drop off drastically with struggle. Cutters and GRay Goat along with BKB are head and shoulders the best fit for this event.

    Reply

  14. Interesting noting how team cultures/dynamics shift era to era.

    Jetblach seems be relying on having superior depth to other teams, as opposed to JB/Delts relying on a superstar to save them. Very deep team and will be successful in TP.

    BKB is the inverse to what they’ve been. A superstar or 2 carrying the rest of the team. While they seem to have a decent #3, depth at the 4 spot has been BKB’s strength since 2014.

    CUTTERS are not overly reliant on a sprinter for the first time since before EY. Strongest 1-4 in the field by a significant margin. Hubregtse and Grossling really give them almost limitless options in how they can race.

    Beta/ Gafombi still flying under the radar with solid, but not great riders…will likely have a chance to breakaway at some point….AGAIN. Some things never change.

    Gray Goat going younger rather than relying on upperclassmen. Partially due to Welch/ Torbik/ Kingele/ Stratton all gone, but are still one of the youngest teams in the field.

    Sig Ep coming off a year with one of the best 1-3 punches in Little 500 history now relying on Settle and an out of shape Harris to carry them to their 8th place finish.

    Phi Delt have reverted back to a 2 person carried program, a la Romo and Rob Lee. Glad to see them back in relevance though.

    Bears/ Wright have gone from being sprinter oriented -> a deep, overall solid team -> back to sprinter carried. No Figg, but Langley really has come into his own this year. Richards and Goodrum are solid pack fill but they are a 1 trick pony. Worst 1-4 spread in the field among contenders IMO.

    3PH can win this year in a sprint but would have trouble staying with the leaders in any kind of breakaway attempt/ chase. Unlike 2016, where they pulled a top 5 finish by not dropping completely from Delts/ SAE/ BKB/ Cutters, 3PH won’t be able to hang if these teams decide to drop them, but a threat in a sprint.

    SAE still Krahulik carried…see Beta. Some things never change.

    Reply

  15. Update on my unilateral decision to ban coaches for making me look stupid:

    Under my merciful rule, I will allow Tom to make a walk of atonement from Nicks to Bill Armstrong Stadium instead of serving his 3yr ban. He will then have to say 10 Hail Andreas and swear to never bring up my 3:16 ITT.

    Reply

    • Bold move to ban one of the few coaches that seems to have any interest in helping out struggling teams. Couple that, with the fact that Schwoegler was doing more to unite alumni across all decades of the race than IUSF/IUF has bothered to in recent years. Moves like this might explain why there isn’t a full field in either race this year

      Reply

  17. So let me get this straight, Tom Schwogler, the most invovled and helpful person in Little 5 is booted for 3 years for doing literally nothing wrong or illegal? But Jordan Bailey loses the TV contract and filters riders into BKB (ever notice their program has slowly gone down hill after he left and can’t filter in any more guys) but is welcome with open arms back into the race. Little 5 is going nowhere at this rate. We will have all of about 25 teams in the men’s race within 5 years and still not a full women’s field. Thank you IUSF, you continue to be a symbol based on hypocrisy and autonomy.

    Reply

    • You forgot the part where Jordan was secretly coaching BKB while simultaneously being race director…cannot think of a bigger conflict of interest. Very cool no collusion

      Reply

    • Despite his shortcomings, Bailey was arguably the best RD the race has had. Don’t remember registration being this low during his time. Yeah he lost AXS tv but gave an opportunity to the Media school students to run the broadcast again using Little 5 to promote student leadership and work. He put in a timing system that the current RD can’t seem to understand so we’re atill getting quals times done buy IUSF general members who are half awake. After he left BKB won then got 3rd, not consistently bad enough to say “downhill” although this year may be rough and could solidify them on that downwards trajectory.
      Not sure what Schwogler did but 3 years seems harsh, especially when the man lives and breathes this race. I wouldn’t be too shocked if within a few weeks after the race and into the summer there looking for a new director.

      Reply

    • What is axs tv? Some kind of local public access channel? The media students do an awesome job and the ability to watch the race from anywhere seems like a good thing.

      Reply

      • Let’s not make Schwoegler out to be the Jesus Fucking Christ of Little 500. He’s self-centered and manipulative. The list of upcoming teams he’s globbed onto only to be kicked to the curve when they get to know him is very lengthy. Don’t know what he did to receive a three year ban, but, surely, it wasn’t “nothing.”

  18. Guys lets all take a pound of a chill pill and reflect on these events. I am essentially a lawyer and I serve as the righteous heir to all judiciary of this forum and Little 500. I fully stand behind the foundation’s decision, I believe in firmly in a communistic state and that is exactly the approach of the Student Foundation. Look at how the Soviet Union is doing, they are thriving. See how the Mongolian’s People’s Republic is doing? Yeah, freaking great. IUSF has taken the correct stance in taking on a communist rule towards riders and coaches. Stalin, Castro, and Lenin have greatly influenced the foundation. I salute to you my fellow commies and I say, “I STAND BEHIND THE STUDENT FOUNDATION”. Now you all do it or I will kayak my ass up there in my chacos and freaking put you in jail, oh and you bet your sweat ass I will be in my poc helmet with my yellow jersey. Peace out, with much love from the mile high state.

    Reply

    • Who cares? Tom is old, mean, and well beyond his relevancy.

      Today is team pursuit!

      Women
      1. DG
      2. Ski
      3. Teter

      Men
      1. Grey Goat
      2. Cutters
      3. Bkb

      Reply

  21. For those of you out of the loop:

    Just recently a prominent name in the little 5 community was banned for a minimum of three years from all Little 500 events. His coaching credentials were revoked through a ‘catch-all’ rule that basically says IUSF has full authority to ban anyone if they feel like they challenge the best interest of the IUSF/Little 500.

    IUSF and the race administration is too busy flexing their authority they forget their actual purpose. Their primary efforts should be gathering interest in the race and supporting teams. Threatening teams with potential disqualification is a great way to fuck over an entire bike program. And people wonder why there are so few teams in the little 500 this year… I get that recording an organized meeting without notifying one of the parties may feel deceptive to the unknowing party, but entirely legal and not grounds to ban someone for years. It might be the only way to guarantee the conversation is not ‘sanitized’ for the recording e.g. telling a women’s team to their faces that their efforts to get into the race are just a ‘drop in the bucket’. That’s not race promotion or supportive of teams. That’s laziness and indifference. What horrible leadership. At least pretend to show some ambition.

    Coach Schwegler sends the recording and a note to Curt Simic, a long time supporter of the race and patron of the IUF and the IUSF, to share some of the ‘leadership’ going on within the Little 500. When Curt sends these items to IUF and IUSF, they respond saying IUSF operated within their authority (which, of course they did. The rule would allow them to ban anyone for having a shoelace untied). It’s no secret that Schwegler was not friends with the leadership in the little 500 due to his competitiveness and criticism in the past, but now IUSF had an excuse to pull the trigger and now Schwegler cannot continue contributing to the little 500 and DSP is in limbo where they won’t know if they will receive a race penalty or disqualification sometime before the race. Show me the part of this situation where the leadership of Little 500 is promoting the race and its riders.

    It’s seems to me that some of the race administration may be “inconsistent with the best interest of the IUSF and/or the Little 500” (Little 500 Manual: page 11).

    Oh, and good luck at Team Pursuit today.

    Reply

    • drop-in-the-bucket. Noun. (idiomatic) An effort or action having very little overall influence, especially as compared to a huge problem

      Reply

    • I was under the impression that the new coaching credential process was to protect the RIDERS, not give IUSF the ability to bully teams by threatening disqualification and unilaterally ban coaches for legally recording the RD actually telling a group of young women that their participation in the race doesn’t matter. Seems like there are no checks and balances on IUSF, and now we’ve given them the ability to kick people out just if they say something that Andrea doesn’t like (or catch her saying something that goes directly against the spirit of the Little 500, oops…) Sounds a lot like absolute power…

      Reply

      • I’m the Supreme Leader, what do you expect? I never rode in the damn race, and I will do my best to make the experience awful for only a select few of my choosing. I have no tolerance for men especially because of the privilege they’ve had in racing more than twice as many times as the women have.

        And for all of the other imposters out there, quit posting as me.

  23. With the schwoegler controversy+cutters going down in TP+race week buzz…33TO1 BOUTTA BE LIT THIS WEEK😤🔥💦

    Reply

  25. 1. Cutters
    2. BKB
    3. Grey Goat
    4. Phi Psi
    5. Jetblach

    *BKB takes it back if they can all grow fu manchu’s before race day
    *Grey Goat finally climbs to the top if they do 8 more roller workouts before race day
    *Phi Psi wins the first greek title in ages if one of their riders can hit puberty before next Saturday
    *Jetblach wins it if Courtney Bishop can find a way to lose his voice by lap 200

    Reply

  26. Tom is 66 years old…. far too old to be going to spring break parties. Head south Tom. This action by IUSF is a blessing in disguise.

    Reply

  30. Dear IUSF,

    Tara, Beth, and Andrea need to go. After the race, little 5 riders and alumni need to do something about them. This is not just about Tom, this is about the fact that IUSF holds total control over anyone involved in the race and quite frankly, don’t give a damn about any rides or alumni. Telling a girl she can not ride and thats its no big deal and a “drop in the bucket”, poorly represents the race and shows a clear lack of leadership or competence. IUSF runs off of implied rules, its authoritarian and wrong. Riders and alumni need to step up, former Steering Committee should as well.

    Reply

  31. How about Andrea and Tara do more to promote the race, support teams, and be as flexible as possible to encourage participation….Little 5 is slowly dying and they are all too happy to tell a group of women that their efforts don’t matter….Absolutely ridiculous

    Reply

  33. Tom Schwoegler is a 66 year old pest whose record frankly doesn’t speak for itself. If he was 1/10 the coach he thought he was, he would have more rings than CB, Knapp, or even Woj. Him making a massive stink about being suspended for conduct detrimental to Little 500 by recording a private conversation without consent is a scumbag move and while it may not necessarily be illegal, it is 100% in bad taste. I am by no means an AB supporter, but to say Tom is innocent and didn’t have this coming is disingenuous and ignorant to his behavior the last decade.

    Frankly, I don’t give a fuck about Tom Schwoegler. I’m tired of talking about him and he’s hijacked conversations about the race where people could be discussing some of the many interesting storylines that have developed this spring leading into the Little 500.

    Reply

    • Men’s Side

      – Cutters had the best 1-4 split in the field, won quals, and are the defending champions returning 3/4…will anybody be able to beat them? And in order to win, how would they do it? By upsetting Noble in a sprint or breaking away?
      – Gray Goat went sub 9 at Team Pursuit without racing their top ITTer. I’d be more concerned about Jacob Hansen with a 10 second gap on the field than anybody except Xavier Martinez.
      – BKB has 2 top 5 ITTers and had their fastest TP runs since 2015. Strobel is a true sprint threat and has now proven he has the engine to hang with the best.
      – While these 3 independent teams have dominated the spring, Phi Psi and Phi Delt have quietly become the cream of the crop on the Greek side. Curtis and Beaumont are as good of a 1-2 punch as anybody except X and Buck, while Albert La Valle may have the biggest engine in Little 5. If either team’s stars can get some help, flying under the radar while the 3 independent teams command attention could lead to a podium result for either team.

      Women’s Side
      – DG a clear cream of the crop. Have absolutely dominated Spring Series and boast the best overall rider in the field and should be the overwhelming favorite to win.
      – SKI, Teter, and AXO are the true challengers. Each boast top talent, but have a glaring weakness. SKI needs a star, Teter needs depth, and AXO needs a star to step up. If it comes down to a 1 lap sprint, I’m taking AXO over DG. If it comes down to a breakaway effort….DG by a mile.
      – Theta has taken a massive step down. If Arakawa isn’t racing, they’re screwed. A win this year would be Knapp’s greatest accomplishment.
      – I refuse to sleep on TPA. Courtney thrives under the radar and has a true star racing for him this year. They’ve been quiet all spring but others on this board have speculated about their talent for a year now. I am doubting, but am not sleeping just yet.

      Reply

      • Fingers crossed, it looks like we should have some nice conditions for racing. Low 60’s both days and cloud cover. Track should hold together pretty nicely. The forecast for the women’s race is calling for steady 10-15 mph winds with gusts at 30+mph! Men’s race will be slightly cooler and while not as strong, the gusts are still supposed to hit 15-20 mph which ain’t easy.

        I agree that DG looks dominant, but those winds will prove to be a challenge if they’re trying to win it off the front. Might help one of the other teams you mentioned to hide and make it to the end for a sprint upset. The men’s side seems pretty dead on. Not to get overly geedy, but I’d add Jetblach, NEH, and Gafombi to that second tier that could make some noise with Phi Psi and Phi Delt. We haven’t seen a crazy wreck involving a lot contending teams on the men’s side in a while. Don’t want it to happen, but I have a feeling.

    • A little resume padding in preparation for a run at the RD job?
      And he has more rings than CB & Woj and I think equal to Knapp. But don’t let facts get in your way.

      Reply

      • Because people are allowed to have an opinion, you little communist shit. You’d actually make a great apprentice, but first you must come to the dark side.

      • Because people are allowed to have an opinion, you little communist shit. You’d actually make a great apprentice, but first you must come to the dark side.

  34. Don’t sleep on Teter either, they’re looking like great contenders for the W this year too. As for the men’s side it’s hard to tell with the star 5 teams looking strong,it will be an interesting sprint. Will definitely be a great race to watch.

    On another unrelated note, no one gives a rats ass about both Tom or Courtney Bishop, everyone praises them like a god. In my experience as an assistant coach on the field in the past, they have incredibly rude and manipulative ways of coaching that no one wants on the field.

    Reply

  36. 1. BKB- Bet X is off the front with 10 to go and don’t think him + Strobel are catchable unless the chase pack is as big as it was last year.
    2. Gray Goat- Expecting them to lead the chase pack reeling BKB in and drop their help. Cutters won’t help reel in a breakaway (as we saw last year) so Gray Goat rides away from the chase, unable to complete the bridge.
    3. Cutters- Noble waits too long to make his move and finds himself winning the sprint for 3rd. Same podium as the last 2 years, just in 2017 order.
    4. Nicks- Top 2 can hang with the top 3 but liabilities at #4 make Fergus + Griffin do too much work and lose the sprint for 3rd.
    5. Gafombi- Experience plays a large part in this team’s top 5 performance. Solid coaching and training keeps the Beta program relevant.

    Reply

    • Factors pondered include: Ability to overcome adversity. Likelihood of making the last lap. Win a sprint? Win off the front? More than one sprinter?
      Drink it straight: Cutters and BKB
      Add Ice: Phi Psi, Bears, NEH, Jet Blach
      Cocktail: Sig Ep, Phi Delt, Gafombi, SAE, 3PH

      Reply

      • There are objective and subjective considerations.
        Objectively, a team’s top ITT rider and its TP placement give a good snapshot. This mixologist likes to examine ITT and TP results in half a second per lap groupings. For example, all riders within 2 seconds of the fastest rider are grouped together. Riders within 2 to 4 seconds are placed in a second group. This is continued until there are 5 or so groupings. Team pursuit results are grouped similarly but by 7.5 second intervals.
        Subjectively, this information is then shaken and filtered through observation, opinions, gut feelings, past performances, and so on.

  37. womens field should make a STATEMENT and take a stand against the student foundation and wait 17 seconds for DSP to take their penalty

    Reply

  39. Official, indisputable 2019 Little 500 win probabilities:

    Men’s:
    1A. Cutters – 20%
    1B. BKB – 20%
    3. GG – 18%
    4. Jetblach – 8%
    5. Phi Psi – 7%
    6. NEH – 7%
    7. Phi Delt – 6%
    8. Gafombi – 4%
    9. Bears – 4%
    10. Sip Ep – 3%
    11. SAE – 1%
    12. Forest – 1%
    The Field – 1%

    Women’s:
    1. DG – 40%
    2. SKI – 20%
    3. Teter – 16%
    4. AX0 – 10%
    5. TPA – 5%
    6. Theta – 4%
    7. Phi Mu – 3%
    8. Independent Council – 1%
    The Field – 1%

    Reply

    • Nick Hartman’s ring is equal to the value of a a participation award. Winning by default due to a wreck, it ain’t worth much. No one cares bout Hartman. Talk about the race or let the feed go back to IUSF and Tom.

      Reply

  42. Who you taking in a 4 man crit (Post 2013)?

    Cutters: Guyon, Thiery, Schwedland, Depasse
    Delts: Tormoelhen, Smith, Momper, Vicino
    SAE: Joe, Andy, Marks, Sasseman
    Sig Ep: Torrance, Hicks, Settle, Harris
    Phi Delt: Romo, Lee, Beaumont, Brunk
    Beta: Craig, Knight, Laughlin, Mcnamara
    BKB: Martinez, Brauchla, Hammon, Hartman
    3PH: Cohen, Thompson, Thomspon, Wilson
    Gray Goat: Klingle, Welch, Tisdale, Stratton
    Bears/Wright: Langley, Zehr, Figg, Goodrum
    Sig Chi (lol): Holtkamp, Ryan, Fiore, uhhhh…. Serf?
    Island of Misfits: Abel, Kalbfell, Crawford, Portolese

    Everyone other team: So sorry, you would stand no chance

    Hopefully this is argued till sunrise at Nicks…

    Reply

      • In a crit i would take

        Langley – racing for Mother Bears?
        Guyon – Upland Cycling
        Beaumont – Zone 6
        Hannon – Gray Goat Mobile/Bullseye

        These 4 seem to have the most experience when it comes to racing outside the Little 500 and have Ws under their belts in their respective fields. These 4 know what it really means to race bikes imo.

        Regardless. Interested to see where their cycling careers go.

    • Finally saw some strength from independent women’s teams with Teter in 1st, SKI in 3rd, and Independent Council in 5th. This i
      s the year that will change the women’s race.

      Reply

      • Good point. It’s been a long time coming, so does the trend mean that greek teams will become irrelevant in time, and how does one make the playing field the same for all teams. Does a rule need to be put in place to either limit or expand how teams can recruit? How can that be done.

        Great race on Friday. Not sure why the women want to lengthen their race, when the 100 lap format is always so exciting. Fantastic job by Teter to win. They played it very coy and had what they needed at the end. Ski were only going to win one way, unfortunately for them Teter, DG, and AXO were too strong to break.
        Can’t wait for next year now.

    • DG dropped an exchange which led Coppens to getting stitches in her leg after the race. I think she was just so exhausted and thought she could pull it off? I also don’t know if she knew that Teter was right there…it was unfortunately not her smartest choice knowing all of the brutal wind was awaiting her on the back stretch. Still an impressive performance by her, DG, Teter, and Ski all around. Amazing women’s race!!!

      Reply

    • My Guess on the Men’s Side

      Albert La Valle
      Caleb Langley
      Noble Guyon
      Rob Krahulik
      Robert Oehler
      Tom Settle
      Xavier Martinez

      Reply

      • Quite possible. More of a popularity contest than anything. Harris is a great guy. Just because he had an injury and a lack-luster spring, I wouldn’t count him out of it.

      • I personally think a few of these picks cancel each other out.
        Don’t think you can have Singhal and Thompson, Settle and Harris, etc. You need to make a serious move in the race or podium or finish top 5 ITTs. Tisdale is good but Gray Goat was so deep this year that he didn’t really stick out compared to his teammates. Don’t think Jaggard has any reason to be in the discussion.

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